Wednesday 31 August 2016


I "play by", well sort of in a quite vague way, what is behind dukkha-sorrow, discontentment etc as being a symptom of wrongness as we know it and a-THE catalyst, so for me it is a process, it is an awakener, a helper, a teacher etc etc...I would be tempted to say that it is an indirect line with...with...?? let's say The Source...yet this is perhaps more a "romantic" saying than a fact..the fact is that I do not know what is this energy which is there in strange times of what we may call bliss or whatever like absolute contentment etc ...it has no name anyway..and just know like some , some of its effects when it is lived.


if I do not know for myself that dukkha-sorrow is a symptom and a catalyst for having lived that many times now....then immediately I am back to heavy or not heavy suffering of which I know nothing about , this brings me back to my past totally lost in ignorance and in pain....and there is no way I am going back there, why do such thing..
Krishnamurti goes that way with people often....not only..
So to keep on with what is in bold letters i need to recall some experiences..otherwise I have nothing of value to say so share so I think.
Here again I am going tangential ...and I bring a recurrent over the years, vivid dreams ...
I walk alone in the country, beautiful place by my standard near the sea side...I should be fine yet I know that something is going to happen, something deadly terrible which frightens me entirely....at first I do not know about what is going to happen, then all of a sudden I see the sea level rising at an incredible speed, something tells me to stay with that, not to move, not to run away, that it is too big anyway so that there is no escape ..despite that I try to run away most of the time, then of course I drown and wake up in total fear sweating and all of it...
I have learn that even in a dream well nightmare the best ones indeed, the more significant by far ,that there can be the "awareness that one can act in such circumstances without the fear, and I have done it more than a few times, so I voluntary let the sea submerged me, or sometimes it is a dream where one falls from a hight cliff,same meaning behind for me , and when I do not escape....something impossible takes place...one does not drown, one does not get the body smashed when falling down on the rocks..
then here one learns something...this will be to be seen by anyone when it occurs..as it is never the same so far....
but today's quote comes forth to gently "help" us from Ommen Camp, Holland | 3rd Public Talk 8th August, 1938

  • We are trying to escape, run away from ignorance and fear, through forming habits that will counteract them, that will resist them - habits of ideals and morality. When there is discontentment, sorrow, the intellect mechanically comes forward with solutions, explanations, tentative suggestions, which gradually crystallize and become habits of thought. Thus suffering and doubt are covered over.

  • So fear is the root of this habit-forming mechanism. We must understand its process. By understanding I do not mean the mere intellectual grasp of it, but the becoming aware of it as an actual process that is taking place, not superficially, but as something that is happening every day of one's life. Understanding is a process of self-revelation, of being aware not merely objectively, mechanically, but as a part of our very existence.
so in relation to dukkah we find somehow the same "pattern" , dukkah is the sea water rising up, or the fall from the cliff..then you do not escape or try to..and here enters into being one of those strange weird moments of life...when life is "good"( sorry for this quite stupid word but it will do for now) to be lived for no reasons but the total relief of this unbearable eight of thought leadership ...
the sea will rise again but one has learn something...and as long as thought is still concerned in such process what is left can be used up to its limits where it is significant to be used, at some stage thought will be an hindrance so here memory has nothing to offer at all apart from preventing any discovery, always involuntary for me..
"something helps" if and when i do not search for it..so when thought is not our "guide" to war, one of its very best achievement.. Thought is not fit for the whole of life ...says dukkah and pain...?

Monday 29 August 2016

today's quote from krishnamurti comes forth to gently "help" us from Ommen Camp, Holland | 3rd Public Talk 8th August, 1938

  • We are trying to escape, run away from ignorance and fear, through forming habits that will counteract them, that will resist them - habits of ideals and morality. When there is discontentment, sorrow, the intellect mechanically comes forward with solutions, explanations, tentative suggestions, which gradually crystallize and become habits of thought. Thus suffering and doubt are covered over.

  • So fear is the root of this habit-forming mechanism. We must understand its process. By understanding I do not mean the mere intellectual grasp of it, but the becoming aware of it as an actual process that is taking place, not superficially, but as something that is happening every day of one's life. Understanding is a process of self-revelation, of being aware not merely objectively, mechanically, but as a part of our very existence.
the eternal fight of thought caught as k says ,caught in opposites yes/no, always guessing conceptually, fine if the subject is practical, but when it is not about matter or practicality what happens ??
... Here I agree with Richard by seeing the same point as himself,Richard who is gone from here for a while having said and shared what he felt he had to, I agree that at any time, at any moment, anything from thought in daily life is potentially a matter of some sort of suffering from very mild to very heavy, so is a matter of "awakening", understanding etc too...but this is words and does not relief anything, even if true..
My half logical and half insightful "view" now here is that this is not incidental, meaning that we would just be unlucky to get caught in any suffering when instead of that we could as well have been never suffering at all..
To me this is deeper than it seems to be, what I see here is that this is a process, it is necessary to bring something very specific : thought is forced to question itself, by a sort of too heavy pressure put on its shoulder, that we call suffering, dukkha being a better word for me as it is wider than suffering..suffering is a bit short for me like fear is...such words are not good enough for me now anymore.
So a never ending escape you say...When young I was drowning into that..like you I had been "blessed" with heavy suffering since I can remember anything of my lifetime...but not only...I had too a very good energy , not the energy to built empire, to make money, to win or to kill masses of people, anything but such energy...not my property of course nevertheless it was there for me, despite that many sees me as the problem which I don't, it does not mean that I am right of course..
6 years or now 7 perhaps, aged 55 , I re learn totally incidentally of course to drown into dukkha's effects , on one hand was this unbearable sensation, on the other hand me, awake, standing, aware that I can't live that anymore...very dangerous moment as this is when one can chose to end one's life prematurely, but that was not at all the case...
And like in any case where the weight of life is involved is this fight against it as you well know it and say it here ...
So far thought had always be leading, in charge at 100%....as this is how we start as a child..it is facing something painful and unknown..
And it has no clue is a fact.

It keeps working .....

What I know by experience so far is this: chronologically I see this, there is ad dramatical situation, there is panic, fear, pain, suffering ,sweating, one goes nuts etc etc and more..it is absolutely terrible, totally unbearable...life as it was is over is the image "I" see..and is going to end soon..I have live so so I allow myself to mention ,otherwise I would not..
thought fights that fact by all means, prior to that its own end had not been dealt with, if it is possible but at least it had been move into a very far future **superficially" , for me the unconscious knows that pretty well, I have seen it there..it may stay that way.It may not.
Such situation as any other fact must be lived, not thought about apart when there is a need for practical use of thought in it too, which there will be of course.. as a person who often fails ,I know how tough it is, but there is no other way ,whether I like it or not..."I" is not the leader...it is a tool.
Then all this is too much, again "I" renounced to this fight, too big for "me"...and if there is again no escape of any kind, something impossible will again take place..but this cannot be a goal !!
in what i know thought is not defeated for good...well that would be "great"..especially in very tough time like a severe sickness...but not only..if one is over sensitive to the environment and himself, well the pain will be as unbearable, there seem to be no hierarchy in pain like some try to pretend...so for a person like me it is matter of going back to it all the time...and bit by bit there is a sort of learning and a light which is there, sort of helper...but my actual intent is not to develop much what comes after having lived suffering but the living of it, yet yes it brings relief, energy ,understanding, visions etc etc it gives back life somehow if I may say, there is great interest behind all that..
does it seem to say that nothing least as such ? well this could be..
But unlike k I am a beginner yet 61 years old ..but here as I have read all his books and biography, I know, by a simple sentence out of the way or such thing, that he had too to solve problems when they were arising, he seemed to have been able to tackle them at their birth so live them ,then they will speak is my impression...now it can be right or not..
second question in bold letters: my view only, it is because it must be that way otherwise thought is too powerful and will not allow anything else but itself to exist unless it can use it...incidentally, no not at all incidentally, this is what takes place in the outer..

John::  is thought really defeated or it is simply dormant, just waiting to be waked up by the thinker?

Agreed it always seems to come back, but again thought using a real experience, a deep one is now trying to use it to its profit an imagine that now it is for good, I have changed and it will last forever..this again is going to create another pain that will have to be understood...
is it what k mentions when he talks about constant awareness of thoughts...?? I would be tempted to say so..this shows that immediately thought go back to its usual blah blah...what I know is that there is a building up of some form of non accumulative knowledge like in practical matters, then when a discovery is made like in a miracle , one does not have to start the same path again and again and one will start from a position where the previous discovery is useful to some limits , ie: one knows that suffering must be left alone somehow
John:
I would like to ask first, is that "fed up with the situation one is", a kind of resistance to the situation like to mental sort of pain, sorrow etc? ... And if it is so, would be then the defeat or the give up of thought the end of such resistance? ... Now, the question is why do we resist to the present situation?

It is a resistance as I see that  yes, but usually not perceived as a resistance at all so for what it is so here is a huge problem of course..the global feeling would be more like a global huge confusion where practically nothing is understood, and most energy is used in trying to do something about all that mess which hurts and is painful without having a clue of what is going on, intellectually this is an absolute impossible mission even for a IQ like "me" :-))
the give up is the end yes...it is one single movement.
why do we resist ? routine, habit , ignorance, lack of curiosity, etc all this is the functioning of thought itself ..thought sees itself as all powerful, conceptually it does everything it can imagine, it is only intellectual it has no reality but thought finality , out of many, has the one to interact in practical life to walk, me and the environment, up to making tools, techniques ,etc etc so what it has decided as a concept must exist for itself as it is in its program, what I have decided have to exist, and when thought tries to deal with matters that it cannot so should not deal with but does not know that, it proceeds the same way with making tools than with suffering...it decides that it must go even find some explanations of its own for that, they are always wrong of course ..so it basically never works .
we have a problem, suffering-dukkha, the roots are unknown, "I" say : go away, it does not work, never...it can be a bit covered up by alcohol,drugs,religion, sex work ,money etc but basically it is a bit covered up not understood so not solved ..so it persists ..
this is where some sort of resistance is...we do not know what is going on so the matter is not solved so it remains only a sort of resistance to something more powerful than what thought can deal with ..especially since it is unknown ..
to be continued

Friday 26 August 2016

Marc. wrote:
I would like to ask first, is that fed up with the situation I(one) is, a kind of resistance to the situation? ... And if it is so, would be then the defeat or the give up of thought the end of such resistance? ... Now, the question is why do we resist to the present situation?

I see it as a resistance yes, but not perceived as a resistance ..the global feeling would be more like a global huge confusion where practically nothing is understood, and most energy is used in trying to do something about all that mess which hurts and is painful without having a clue of what is going on, intellectually this is an absolute impossible mission even for a IQ like "me" :-))
the give up is the end yes...it is one single movement.
why do we resist ? routine, habit , ignorance, lack of curiosity, etc all this is the functioning of thought itself ..thought sees itself as all powerful, conceptually it does everything it can imagine, it is only intellectual it has no reality but thought finality , out of many, has the one to interact in practical life to walk, me and the environment, up to making tools, techniques ,etc etc so what it has decided as a concept must exist for itself as it is in its program, what I have decided have to exist, and when thought tries to deal with matters that it cannot so should not deal with but does not know that, it proceeds the same way with making tools than with suffering...it decides that it must go even find some explanations of its own for that, they are always wrong of course ..so it basically never works .
we have a problem, suffering-dukkah, the roots are unknown, "I" say : go away, it does not work, never...it can be a bit covered up by alcohol,drugs,religion, sex work ,money etc but basically it is a bit covered up not understood so not solved ..so it persists ..
this is where some sort of resistance is...we do not know what is going on so the matter is not solved so it remains only a sort of resistance to something more powerful than what thought can deal with ..especially since it is unknown ..

Marc. wrote:
On the other hand, with 'thought is actually and really totally defeated' do you mean that this defeat is because thought cannot deal with the present 'far too heavy weight' situation as could be a cancer or some else deep suffering? ... If it is so, what remains there after thought 'throws the towel' (not looking for THE answer, just inquiring)? ... Is it awareness or a direct perception of what is happening? ...
Well, what I bring here is the recalling of such past as your inquiry mentions, I am not talking from a present right now and living this...
this defeat comes from totally and entirely being fed up with the situation I-one is....and living it for once ..no thoughts involve apart from that absolutely viral one: I am fed, up defeated, I stay with that whatever takes place...
this is my first time original last thought before something weird took place...at the time I was unaware of such possibility, so all what was there was the weight of life and me defeated accepting whatever will take place without being even sad.. what took place once will not take place twice at this level, because memory is now in the way trying to reproduce such experience, always somehow consciously but most of the time unconsciously..a new discovery somehow will need to be made...
as long as I am not too fed up, I'll obviously will go on with what takes place in my life...
in such moment one is fed up yes, but not in the sense which could bring the idea to end one's life prematurely, I mean the moment I talk about does not contain the usual self typing,self crying etc etc
thought having tried according to itself all what it could possibly do for once does not find even one single escape any more..thought is stuck there in such corner with the heavy weight and when there is no escape what takes place ?? is what I am talking about...this moment is a vital one..
the intellectual grasping of that as an idea is of course not enough as this is a doing to be done by oneself, somehow...
why "somehow" ? because I see so far that this is personal only, this somehow will depend on anyone..
When such proper doing takes place, it immediately brings a different state in the brain mind and is always different as to the content brought but not that much as to the form it takes..so it is not that useful to say more about that right now...what I am trying to say up to now according to me can be shared up to some limits of course..I know that for having done some "work" on that wavelength with my 5 children in very tough time, and something happened , they found ways into that, now that they have some recalling of it, as globally they are fine, I have no reason at all to insist about it...I would even say that they found something by themselves, up to them now ...on the other hand many now old friends just run away :-))..
so it "works" more easily in time of heavy trouble..as troubles somehow exist too for that...the heaviness of life is not incidental or bad luck, it has a quite define birth and growth for me.
you say : Is it awareness or a direct perception of what is happening? ...
So as awareness is one of those words which leave me blank...and I really mean that , I would not know...
Is it direct perception? I don't know....what seems quite clear is that this brings in a row the solving of one or more problems, that "I" do not choose, this is totally out of my hand now...another process works when before it did not........
the solving is instant and happens by this involuntary seeing deeply of the root of it and all of it ( or sometimes there is no seeing but a bliss replacing the heavy sadness then one knows that one problem or more have been solved without knowing which one as what is not conscious is totally involved in such time..) , in let us say an insightful manner, then it is understood for good...it does not mean that it is solved for good, as it may come back, thought doing bad job again, but the deep seeing left something that will again work and this time will not solve the problem long after but will see it arising and will immediately deal with it ....
I am not able to make a define map of all that....
to come back to your point , there is the involuntary seeing,deep ,very deep not from thought as we know it,something x is at work that is obvious when it takes place but direct perception is not something I clearly understand, yet I have such a bright brain :-)) ..something sees what thought cannot is what I see so far....
I do not search to understand, this comes from one of those deep seeing which left something that will again work, but this is my own history and here of no direct interest in what I am trying to say...which is all for now...

Tuesday 23 August 2016

John wrote:
Hi Paul, and thanks for step in ...
Daniel Paul. wrote:
is that thought is actually and really totally defeated by the far too heavy weight or whatever is wrong so creates that unbearable weight impossible to handle , because in such moment it is not at all important to know the origin of what is wrong, what is vital is to be defeated
This reminds me the conversation I had in the hospital with my friend with cancer ... In that conversation he said almost the same words, he said 'and now it is not a matter to look if I made something wrong or not in the past that could have caused the present situation' ...
Hello John, nice to meet again..
Very amazing and interesting words as such and especially in such situation, from your friend ..And yes at the so called psychological level this is what I was implying ...in the "physical" world, this is something I am kind of looking at, but there is nothing in the obvious or even in the less obvious so far to say...for now I keep it for me at this "physical level...
John. wrote:
On the other hand, with 'thought is actually and really totally defeated' do you mean that this defeat is because thought cannot deal with the present 'far too heavy weight' situation as could be a cancer or some else deep suffering? ... If it is so, what remains there after thought 'throws the towel' (not looking for THE answer, just inquiring)? ... Is it awareness or a direct perception of what is happening? ...
Well, what I bring here is the recalling of such past as your inquiry mentions, I am not talking from a present right now and living this...
this defeat comes from totally and entirely being fed up with the situation I-one is....and living it for once ..no thoughts involve apart from that absolutely viral one: I am fed, up defeated, I stay with that whatever takes place...
this is my first time original last thought before something weird took place...at the time I was unaware of such possibility, so all what was there was the weight of life and me defeated accepting whatever will take place without being even sad.. what took place once will not take place twice at this level, because memory is now in the way trying to reproduce such experience, always somehow consciously but most of the time unconsciously..a new discovery somehow will need to be made...
as long as I am not too fed up, I'll obviously will go on with what takes place in my life...
in such moment one is fed up yes, but not in the sense which could bring the idea to end one's life prematurely, I mean the moment I talk about does not contain the usual self typing,self crying etc etc
thought having tried according to itself all what it could possibly do for once does not find even one single escape any more..thought is stuck there in such corner with the heavy weight and when there is no escape what takes place ?? is what I am talking about...this moment is a vital one..
the intellectual grasping of that as an idea is of course not enough as this is a doing to be done by oneself, somehow...
why "somehow" ? because I see so far that this is personal only, this somehow will depend on anyone..
When such proper doing takes place, it immediately brings a different state in the brain mind and is always different as to the content brought but not that much as to the form it takes..so it is not that useful to say more about that right now...what I am trying to say up to now according to me can be shared up to some limits of course..I know that for having done some "work" on that wavelength with my 5 children in very tough time, and something happened , they found ways into that, now that they have some recalling of it, as globally they are fine, I have no reason at all to insist about it...I would even say that they found something by themselves, up to them now ...on the other hand many now old friends just run away :-))..
so it "works" more easily in time of heavy trouble..as troubles somehow exist too for that...the heaviness of life is not incidental or bad luck, it has a quite define birth and growth for me.
you say : Is it awareness or a direct perception of what is happening? ...
So as awareness is one of those words which leave me blank...and I really mean that , I would not know...
Is it direct perception? I don't know....what seems quite clear is that this brings in a row the solving of one or more problems, that "I" do not choose, this is totally out of my hand now...another process works when before it did not........
the solving is instant and happens by this involuntary seeing deeply of the root of it and all of it ( or sometimes there is no seeing but a bliss replacing the heavy sadness then one knows that one problem or more have been solved without knowing which one as what is not conscious is totally involved in such time..) , in let us say an insightful manner, then it is understood for good...it does not mean that it is solved for good, as it may come back, thought doing bad job again, but the deep seeing left something that will again work and this time will not solve the problem long after but will see it arising and will immediately deal with it ....
I am not able to make a define map of all that....
to come back to your point , there is the involuntary seeing,deep ,very deep not from thought as we know it,something x is at work that is obvious when it takes place but direct perception is not something I clearly understand, yet I have such a bright brain :-)) ..something sees what thought cannot is what I see so far....
I do not search to understand, this comes from one of those deep seeing which left something that will again work, but this is my own history and here of no direct interest in what I am trying to say...which is all for now...
Dan ...........

Sunday 21 August 2016

about krishnamurti' words....

  • Frognerseteren, Norway | 2nd Public Talk, September 8, 1933
If there is [this] divine revolt in you, then you will understand when I say that life is not a school in which to learn; life is not a process of constant accumulation, a process in which there is continual want which is blinding. Then that very revolt in which you are caught up, that very suffering, gives you understanding because it awakens in you the flame of awareness. And when you are fully aware that want is blinding, then you will see its full significance, which dissipates want. Then you will have freedom from want, from gathering in. But if you are unconscious of such a struggle, of such a revolt, you can but continue your life as you are living it, in a half-awakened state. When people suffer, when they are caught up in conflict, that very suffering and conflict should keep them intensely aware; but most of them only ask how to get rid of want. When you understand the full significance of not desiring to gain, to accumulate, then there is no longer the struggle to get rid of something.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The set up of thought needs desire to function is what I know now, (OK I know, the word knowing is not good according to k, well it depends on what extract of his entire work is quoted,) otherwise for me thought does not work, does not push itself nor will it bring a relative good enough survival life, as it would be unable to provide such doing...for me without this other not perceived complementary adds on of desire which is self rewarding, self pride, self congratulation etc etc..thought will not work...we would not even be here having dialogues..
Oh my god and so what ?
again one more time k brings suffering into this.
this is clearly one the basement in k work and words ..
It is a general wide view of that question, remains to do something and not think...
Let us say that I know by experiments, lucky one may I insist on that, that when this energy called suffering which hurts wins, then thought is by passed, all this takes place by itself without searching for it...nor am I searching for
Repeating endlessly myself yes I know..
thought and so called suffering can not be two items as thought sees it, thought sees everything that way, that an outcome of its job as an analyser to provide facts ,views , guesses, concepts etc otherwise we again would not survive incapable to do so..
It is one item but this is a conclusion after at least one experiment about that....thought is suffering, suffering is thought, the observer is the observed, the analyser is the analysed..OK and so what ?? It sounds great or incomprehensible.. ..
The action of suffering could be, not sure about that but it sounds like it, could be that it is forcing such two items according to thought to be what it is so one item the one item being that thought is in pain, that pain is the state of thought..and not a stranger to thought..if one sees that clearly it is then understood that this is the path to suicide-war, both having the same root in the psyche ..escaping oneself is not possible unless the body is not anymore, that is where thought logic can lead ...wow :-((
as long as though is attempting anything about pain and I mean absolutely anything , including facing pain, well nothing else will take place...but same old routine of thought trying to fight pain, so fighting itself in a non existent situation...
thought is dealing with something which is not real, does not exist, there is not on one hand me and on the other pain..
I guess this was meant to happen as I often say...
This is a sort of first lesson by Mother Nature as a teacher...that is a start...only a start...and then who knows what will be there, I think it is then not predictable...
all the best ;-)

Wednesday 3 August 2016

Adam et Eve......

Derrière l'allégorie, le mythe, des faits de notre passé oublié.
 Pour faire très court, humour bien sur car je ne fais jamais court, à partir de ce que je perçois, ceci est la tentative de transcription de vision non intellectuelles, non basées sur la pensée.

Pensée qui n'est pas notre seul "outil", les autres étant en général en dormance..visions qui dès lors ne sont pas personnelles avant tout bien sur..et donc sont globales-collectives avant toute chose donc valables pour tous, non pas en tant que croyance mais en tant que expérience possible pour tous.. puis viennent se poser sur le personnel en douceur ou pas et l'influencer jusqu’à potentiellement
provoquer des changements radicaux ...

c'est ce qu'il nous faut non ?? Des changement radicaux , oui mais que ou quoi ou qui changer ??

Nous vivons le temps des coups de bâtons au propre comme au figuré, après le temps de la carotte c'est difficile à digérer , à vivre...Certains le vivent depuis longtemps, leurs coup de bâtons venant de nous même. A notre tour, car qui vit par l'épée périra par l'épée.

Nous vivons donc ce que nous ne faisons que lire dans des livres d'histoire très mensongers, et là c'est moins drôle !! Avec quand même des biens en profusion pour une majorité encore mais qui va diminuant . On a là devant nous la preuve que la possession physique ne mène à rien de "bon" mentalement, ceci sera bien sur nié pour ne pas perdre pied..

Mais pour le moment cela ne remonte pas encore à notre neurone. Ceci n'implique pas son opposé qui serait de ne rien avoir du tout, ni abris ni à manger, ne pas tomber dans la "connerie" inverse non plus , s'il vous plaît ! merci .

Aux temps de la carotte certains mettaient en garde contre la suite, ils ne furent pas écoutés bien sur...l'heure était à la gloire personnelle, à l'enrichissement personnel, qui même mineur part du même principe intellectuel , l'extension du "moi je" dans la matière, dans l'objet , dans la possession, heures regrettées aujourd'hui., ce qui signifie que de compréhension de quoique ce soit à ce niveau il n'y a toujours pas...alors les coups de bâton vont continuer...car ce système qui est fini depuis un moment en appelle un autre, et cet autre monde ne pourra plus être basé sur la primauté de chaque "moi je" ,en conflit permanent les uns avec les autres par l’intermédiaire de notre croyance stupide et non fondée en cette soi disant compétition, qui garantie ce qui se passe , comme cela garantie la guerre, la torture, le vol, la tricherie, l'insécurité etc etc et la souffrance permanente des humains même si cela est inavoué....car bien sur "moi" je vais très bien : mensonge !!!

Ces heures passées d'extension de soi même dans la possession sont regrettées car cela est un des moyens qui marche encore un peu d’essayer d'oublier une vie de "merde" sur le plan mental en ne vivant que pour le futur.....qui n'existe pas ...le présent ou la souffrance est est alors caché en apparences....mais mais nous oublions que cela est illusion, faux et que notre mental n'est pas un ensemble homogène mais hétérogène, avec plusieurs "composantes" , dont une est devenues non consciente depuis notre passage est mode "pensée superficielle" ..l'utilisation de superficielle n'est pas une valeur donnée à cela, le superficiel à toute sa place mais ..à sa place là où il est vital, car il est vital, l'utilisation de superficiel désigne l’objet de l'analyse auquel se rattache cette pensée ou processus d' analyse ...

tout ceci comme le pire aussi et bien est exactement ce qui doit se produire d’après ces "visions"...révélations , ou " insight " en Anglais...vison intérieure...

je rassure tout le monde , la pensée superficielle seule fonction qui nous reste n'est pas capable de cela, car ce monde de visions , de révélations est interdit d’accès à cette pensée humaine superficielle..heureusement sinon l'univers serait déjà détruit...c'est pour cette raison entre autres raisons que bien sur je ne peux percevoir en entier, que toute vision n'est pas personnelle par nature et si elle l'est une fois ou plus personnelle, elle le sera parce que elle est avant tout globale donc bonne pour tous...pas moyen de monnayer cela donc !! Le global va pouvoir ainsi toucher ce qui est personnel, relatif à ma vie....

le global, L'Origine X, avec un grand L et un grand O , peut toucher le personnel, le personnel ne peut accéder au global de L'Origine...

Bon c'est pas tout c'est bien joli çà mon petit bonhomme, tout ce blabla blabla mais et alors ???

Alors concrètement nous avons un problème X que l'on ne connaît pas du tout dans sa profondeur mais dont on en ressent les effets...la pensée superficielle veut agir de suite, car c'est sa nature vitale dans certains domaines comme ne pas tomber de la falaise , au niveau global sur un problème qu'elle ne connaît pas du tout sinon un peu au niveau de ses effets en surface....çà c'est stupide non ?? car agir au niveau des effets ne va pas solutionner le problème, juste le modifier en surface seulement au mieux...mais cela n'est même pas sur...

On a tous des solutions personnelles à des problèmes globaux que l'on ne connaît pas à leurs racines, si cela est le cas on ne peut les solutionner en profondeur donc on ne peut éradiquer les problèmes mais seulement en changer un peu au mieux certains effets....

Pendant ce temps les pervers narcissiques nous volent avec notre consentement car on va encore aller revoter pour eux comme pour leur dire : "allez y les gars vous pouvez continuer à nous niquer " :-)) et pendant ce temps là en haut de la pyramide sociale, ceux du haut coopèrent sur un seul but : qui est : " comment continuer à niquer ces abrutis ( nous ) "
..les abrutis , nous donc, ne voient tous que leur propre jardin,et ne voient jamais le global car l'abruti de base refuse de coopérer..JAMAIS....plutôt crever !!!

c'est en fait l'abruti de base, moi, toi, mais lui aussi, qui a créé de par son attitude l'espace nécessaire à ce que cette minorité qui nous gouverne existât...

cette élite est notre création à tous...sauf exceptions je suppose.

cela signifie que rien ne sera résolu, rien, R I E N....si nous n’allons pas à la racine des choses , où ? en soi même aussi. Nous devons finir par avoir une sorte de panorama global de ce qui se passe , en soi même comme à l’extérieur

Alors que faire ? euh ??? ben rien.... !!! justement rien !!

C'est justement parce que nous essayons de faire quelque chose que rien ne se passe on ne peut agir profondément sur ce que l'on ne connaît pas profondément.., nous passons de suite à des réactions superficielles qui marchent très bien et encore pour réparer quelque chose de pratique qui ne marche pas, mais cette réflexion minimaliste et superficielle qui est cependant bien sur vitale et qui a sa place réservée dans des domaines précis et limités, , va alors envahir des champs de la vie ou elle n'a aucune compétence et donc ne devrait pas aller ....

De là va naître l'idée illusoire qu'il y aurait une compétition et que cela serait notre nature profonde..encore faux car cela vient de l'abus de l'usage de la pensée ou analyse dans des domaines ou elle n'a aucune compétence....pour analyser t produire des moyens de survie entre deux ou plus idée, concepts, projets etc etc j'en élimine certains pour n'en garder que un seul voir un sous le coude au cas ou ....si "on" applique ce qui est du domaine exclusif de l'analyse conceptuelle donc purement mentale à mes rapports avec les autres humains, je vais alors éliminer les humains de la même façon....ceci est provoqué par la perte de nos autres capacités qui amène le totalitarisme de la pensée sur le cerveau ..etc bien sur..je ne peux dire ici tout ce que je vois en intégralité...trop long.

Pour être plus clair autre vision : je reçois des flèches qui me font mal, mais si je ne cherche pas l’origine de ces flèches, et me contente d'essayer de m'en protéger , les flèches vont continuer à me tomber dessus.... et puis un jours las de tout cela , un ou plusieurs vont rechercher l’origine de ces flèches et en finir avec pour de bon , problème résolu, au suivant quand il se présentera....voir l'image des flèches ici comme la douleur mentale de nos vies.....à ne pas prendre bien sur dans un sens guerrier ...

là c'est un instant de découverte énorme, impensable...

c'est exactement ce que nous ne faisons plus....pourquoi "ne faisons plus " ?

Parce que un mythe pour moi vrai, basé sur une vérité racontée de manière allégorique tel que celui de Adam et de Eve, évoque alors notre passé inconnu de nous même, peut être pas de tous et là je ne parle pas de moi même , ce passé ou c'était le paradis terrestre, entendons là, paradis genre mental et donc pseudo "psychologique" et aussi + par extension bien sur .

 Paradis mental et terrestre des humains que va venir ternir la primauté de la pensée "grâce" à l' arbre de la connaissance et de ses fruits les pommes, qui deviennent les pommes de la discorde du au fait que des lors le personnel va primer sur le global, global sans lequel rien n'existe, ; pensée entendons nous bien , qui est cependant bien sur elle vitale..sans pensée il n'y a pas de survie.

En ce faisant nous avons fait pire que la dictature de la pensée sur toutes nos autres capacités, nous avons coupé le lien "sacré" avec L'Origine. Foutaise ou pas ? Comment savoir cela ?

Autres capacités qui ne donnent pas de valeur, ne comparent pas, ne créent pas de hiérarchie car tout est relié, ne désirent pas, produit une amplification énorme de nos sens,contiennent une sorte de contentement absolu et de paix étrange , produisent une coopération et un partage alors à l'état naturel qui ne provient donc pas de l'intellect, et contiennent un émetteur récepteur avec ? oui avec quoi donc ? Disons avec L'Origine ou du moins avec quelque chose qui pourrait être cela....

Ceci, ce mythe, cette allégorie d'Adam et de Eve, en clair, parle d'un tournant dans le mental des humains, où la pensée va prendre le contrôle total du cerveau exactement comme elle le fait d'une manière terre à terre, bien terrestre et humaine donc....

Le colonialisme et les guerres , comme le vol partent de chaque cerveau avant toute chose puis deviennent l'horreur que nous voyons ou pas, car n'est pire aveugle que celui qui ne veut pas voir ni regarder.

Pourquoi ? comment ? sont de très bonne questions auxquelles même si je le savais ce qui n'est pas le cas je ne répondrais pas.

Il y a un moment propice pour toute chose...

et là le moment est juste propice à essayer de commencer à comprendre ce qui nous arrive....mais si nous ne faisons encore que se servir du fruit de l'arbre de la discorde, encore une fois cela ne mènera nulle part d'autre que où nous en sommes aujourd'hui, c'est çà dire en guerre, en conflit, avant toute chose avec soi même un "soi même" auquel "on" ne comprend rien du tout de profond ...

La pensée est puissante....

La souffrance sous des formes diverses et variées est son état, car elle ne doit pas être en position de domination sur le cerveau du fait que ainsi elle étouffe nos autres capacités que je ne suppose pas exister mais que comme certains je connais un peu voir un peu plus par expériences directes toujours involontaires avec elles...

Oui et alors ? alors rien , je parle juste....

La souffrance qui peut être de la frustration, du mécontentement permanent insidieux ou pas , de la douleur mentale, de la peur, etc etc etc , est pour moi de ce que je sais par expérience le seul symptôme et le seul catalyseur que nous avons à notre disposition....

Pour résumer je dis ceci : seule la souffrance peut résoudre la souffrance...

je termine là avec cette phrase un peu mystérieuse voir très mystérieuse.....qui n'est pas si dure que cela à déchiffrer pour qui s'y attelle ..mais dans mystérieuse il y a aussi rieuse, alors tout n'est pas perdu.... :-)

Je ne répondrais à aucun haineux., méprisant,, hautain , arrogant , idiots volontaires etc ..............ni habituels empêcheurs de dialogue, professionnels ou pas...genre elle est bonne ? mais elle ne fait pas le ménage ! dirais je alors .

Sinon , çà va chez toi ?

PS : A prendre en mode allégorique ou pas, selon sensibilité de chacun...notre passé en tant que humain, inconnu de quasiment tous, mais pas de tout le monde .

Monday 1 August 2016

John  wrote:
For me personally there is no doubt that a certain process of inner integration is a 'must' and of course, K has an important point here : the fusion of the observer with whatever is observed inwardly.
Hello John, when trying to put in words why suffering, why properly living it etc what you say here says it: it necessary produces the fusion of the observer with whatever is observed inwardly, so that there is no observation at all for some time
if this does not take place that way, then there is no fusion but same old analysing, then the weight of life is not seen, solved and does not bring this extra-ordinary feeling beyond this weight
that is our first classroom as a potential adult to deal with anything being a weight in life, or dukkha or whatever words which suits here
all those nasty problems have for me the specificity to be impossible to be solved by thought...then by extension this will lead "somewhere" unpredictable for me so unknown....theoretically anywhere where that analyser is not,
the analyser will remain as it is vital...
I think that we are so behind or have so lost touch with our deep nature that it is terribly hard for us..
good machines yes but that is all....not enough to make a life but an eventual survival life time ..
John  wrote:
So any inward 'analysis' in terms of acquiring more knowledge about oneself is dualistic by nature...and that's the end of it.
Agreed.
John  wrote:
So, the only 'intelligent' alternative left would be to start learning about a new approach where the 'observer' gets fully immersed in the troubled waters of 'whatever is being observed'
this is where suffering enters into the game, for me it is so because nothing else , as first, will have enough power to force the analyser to step down willingly without any goal hope ,etc
then when this is done at least once it may lead to people like k or whoever on that wavelength who all of a sudden gets the "message" in its deepest way or will give birth to more timid changes in oneself yet it will too....
we sure will find a huge varieties , forms, of changes taking place, like in the analytical world where differences at the surface are all over the place..that seems to be th deep nature of things..
John  wrote:
From where the necessity of some free inner space of quietness - I guess it was called 'contemplation' in the old times , where the actual 'temple' is located within oneself rather than 'outside'. Now, is this necessarily an 'esoteric' activity ?
well as everyone I know the word esoteric but I needed one definition here and I got that one: Intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest
so for me if it is esoteric then it is not a truth, that is only my view.
living suffering does not need any intellectual capacities on the contrary....this is potentially there for everyone...this is something I observe around some I meet..
we worship, not me yet I had a potential very good one so they said (the IQ), the intellect so intellectual but it has no ,they have no key for mankind deep problems at all..they have eventual keys in practical stuff ,that is all...then they use that wasted talent for personal purposes because their all brain is not turned on..so they suffer so are in pain so use what they have to run away from it...
John  wrote:
It doesn't have to be, but the actual fact is that very few people are using this 'timeless' opportunity ( I'm not not talking here of the countless psycho-opportunists doing it 'for profit'). And from this already very small number...some 'make it' and some don't. And in the context of these Teachings it may all start with a quality of inner 'listening'...which -in my humble view- can be cultivated.
Agreed, something can to some extend be "cultivated"...
When I mention the proper dealing with this weight of life, when the weight is felt, this is still the analyser at work and as long as it is at work when it is still in its fields capacities it can "cultivate" some doing...
to make it clear, as I have learnt incidentally to properly deal with this "weight of life" making that life for me unbearable, when it has worked, produced something new, relief , extraordinary etc then I know that this must be done again..up to that point I know that I have to deal the proper way with that, this is still analysing so it can be still cultivated.....
The "desire" is analytical but the means won't be analytical, they can't be when such problem as the weight of life is concerned...
then I see that there will be numerous ways showing themselves...
Here I am talking about us as total beginners...